Chapter 7 – thoughts.need.management

Exploring the Earliest Traditions

This section does nothing to add to or strengthen the case Strobel is trying to make. Strobel claims that Dr. Witherington has gone back to “[Strobel:] …the most primitive material, unquestionably safe from legendary development…” (Strobel, CFC, p. 146). As we’ve seen from the gospels, legendary development can happen quickly. Especially if the writers are intending this to be the foundation for a new religion.

Rather than telling us what documents Strobel refers to so we can cross reference their reliability ourselves, all that Dr. Witherington brings up in this is some references in the gospels. Dr. Witherington points to how Jesus is continually depicted as being in positions of godhood throughout the gospels. As shown in the problems with chapters 2 and 3, the gospels are, at best, unreliable when it comes to the narrative about Jesus. At best, we can get the impression that the gospel writers considered Jesus to be very important.

John’s Portrait of Jesus

Interestingly, Dr. Witherington tells us that he believes “[Dr. Witherington] When you’re dealing with the gospel of John, you’re dealing with a somewhat interpreted picture of Jesus…” (Strobel, CFC, P. 151). While Dr. Witherington gives no reasons to indicate why this is so, this means he has to have some doubts about the accuracy of John. Why, then, would he not have similar reservations about other gospels? Because they agree on most points more? Because Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source to draw from whereas John drew on the other 3?

I and the Father are one

Strobel cites the book “Reasonable Faith” by Williman Lane Craig for justification that Christology started up soon after Jesus is held to have died. A quick read of the book reveals that the book is making the same claim that anyone who reads the gospels would: That Jesus claimed to be god and the messiah. There’s no doubt that the gospels, written several decades after Jesus’s death, would have the same claims as the mythology at the time. Pointing to the gospels and claiming that it’s obvious that Jesus viewed himself as god only tells us what the writers of the gospels believed Jesus was and what they believed he said.

Dr. Witherington wonders towards the end of the section “[Dr. Witherington:] Why is there no other first century Jew who has millions of followers today?” (Strobel, CFC, P. 154). He concludes the only explanation is “[Dr. Witherington:] It’s because this Jesus – the historical Jesus – is also the living Lord.” (Strobel, CFC, P. 154). There are alternate theories that would provide an explanation far better.

First, one could theorize that religions tend to propagate through societies in a manner similar to a virus. Read through this brief essay^[2] if you’re curious about this position. If we take this position to be a good enough explanation, then it appears that Christianity has created some very strong controls over the people who believe in it. While these controls were still in their initial development when they religion began, they were suitably strong enough to motivate early believers in Christianity to stick to their guns… er…. spears?… when pressed to recant their beliefs. These controls were refined throughout the centuries to the point where they are incredibly effective methods to control large swaths of the population.

Alternatively, we could look at decisions that changed how Christians reacted to the events around them. The bible taught that the savior of the world suffered and died terribly, and many Christians themselves took this to mean that they should persevere through persecution. This gave the early Christians, and many today, a persecution complex where they believe being persecuted is a sign that their beliefs are right (hint: It’s not).

Because of this, the early persecution of the Christians had the opposite effect intended. In 313BCE, the roman emperors signed the Edict of Milan^[3], making religious tolerance the default stance of the roman empire. Because the Christians were no longer being persecuted as heavily, this was viewed as a massive victory, and many started to convert to Christianity due to the extreme evangelizing efforts to recruit more followers. This continual recruitment effort despite persecution has brought us to where we are today.

In the Very Place of god

This chapter tries to put together a narrative that people claim Jesus never believed he was divine. This chapter then uses the gospels, which were written to prove Jesus’s divine status to the world, to make the case that Jesus believed he was. At no point does Strobel give any questions or counterexamples that could prompt further discussion. Overall, this chapter seemed to be pretty forced into the book.

Genesis Annotated: Chapter 6

Genesis Annotated: Chapter 8

Chapter 7 Overview

Flooding occurs and everything dies except for Noah on his magic boat of infinite storage space.

Additional thoughts

This chapter has some contradictions in it right from the get go. Noah’s story is retold somewhat, certain importance is given to “clean” animals (what makes an animal clean is undefined), and then the flood starts. And then time jumps back to what seems to be the end of chapter 6 and the flood starts again.

The author here seems to have worked at the Department of Redundancy Department because he REALLY likes repeating stuff.

The Scientific/logic/sequence mistakes in this chapter

What makes an animal clean has not yet been defined (Genesis 7:2)
God changes the animal requirements (Genesis 6:19, 7:2-3)
Noah builds the ark twice (Genesis 6:22, 7:5)
“Great Fountains” references outdated model of the world (Genesis 7:11)
Flood resets (Genesis 7:13)
15 cubit is NOT mountain height (Genesis 7:20)
Inconsistent flood duration (Genesis 7:17, 7:24)

Chapter 7: Genocide

And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.
And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Didn’t we already hear that Noah was the one who would be saved? Why repeat it here?
Wait… I thought we were supposed to have 2 of every animal, not 7 of clean, 2 of unclean? Also, god hasn’t defined what clean or unclean means.
So… 7 of these as well? And keep the seed alive on the face of the earth? Did the author believe plants come from birds?
Repeating the genocide idea… almost like god is trying to talk himself into believing it’s a good idea.
Forty should most likely be translated as “many” here.
What a good boy… I thought he already did that though in Genesis 6:22?
AKA: 50 years old not using lunar months
Alright… that tracks so far based on Genesis 6:18.
Still wondering when god defined clean/unclean. Does this mean animals aren’t prefect according to god now?
So… just pairs, or 7 pairs of some “clean” animals and not others?
8th day starts the flooding then
This seems to imply that the author believes Noah to literally be 600 years, not lunar months.
AKA: Many days and Many nights
Sudden time-skip backwards? Almost seems to be continuing from the end of chapter 6.
Note the word every. That’s a pretty strong claim and doesn’t hold up to good ‘ol math. Check chapter 6 for the math. It’d also be nice of the author to define this “kind” already
Sounds like just pairs, not 7 pairs of some and 1 pair of others.
All flesh. Again, not enough space on that boat.
AKA: Many days
What about land plants? Plants CAN drown if they don’t have CO2 to break down.
This nearly repeats verse 18 word for word. Why is it here?
So… mountains are only 666.75cm tall? That’s only 6.66m. Short mountains!
What a genocidal godomaniac
Implying that this follows the creation myth from chapter 2.
What is the “fowl of the heaven”? Is this some awesome bird that was created that we never heard about? This also pretty much repeats verse 21. This author REALLY likes redundantly repeating repetitious phrases.
So… not 40 days like verse 17 would have us believe?

Additional notes

It’s very likely that the flood narrative describes a local flood. Some have pointed to a flood that affected Shurupakk, Kish as being the inspiration for this story. A flood height of 6.66m (about 25 feet) would have been sufficient to cause widespread destruction and have the tree tops covered.

Not only would this flood have killed “all flesh” on the earth, it would have killed sea life and freshwater life as the waters began to mix, killed off all plants by drowning them (yes, land plants CAN drown), and left massive amounts of sediment everywhere. Note that a sediment layer from a global, worldwide flood has never been found, nor is there any evidence of everything dying out and restarting over from such a small population.

Tag: Chapter 7

Problems With The Case for Christ: Chapter 7