Problems With The Case for Christ: Chapter 11

This chapter opens with an anecdote about how a coroner can learn things from someone who is dead. The tie in by Strobel ignores the fact that a coroner requires a dead body to learn what has happened, and there’s no body for him to examine.

Strobel interviews Dr. Alexander Metherell M.D. in this chapter.

The Torture Before the Cross

This section requires the obligatory point out that the gospels are unreliable. Read my problems with chapter 2 and 3 to see why. Throughout this entire chapter, Dr. Metherell relies heavily on the gospels as evidence for his claims.

Strobel questions Dr. Metherell, saying “[Strobel:] The gospels tell us he began to sweat blood at this point. …isn’t that just a product of some overactive imaginations?” (Strobel, CFC, P. 211). While Dr. Metherell correctly points out that hematidrosis, or sweating blood, is a well known medical phenomenon, he does not mention that the gospels they are basing this on contains an interpolation. Jesus sweating blood is an interpolation that is not included in the earliest manuscripts[1]. Taking the gospels as reliable and making any guesses (educated or otherwise) is not going to provide a reliable answer.

Dr. Metherell also provides a very graphic description of what a Roman beating would have been like and points to the gospels as evidence of Jesus having low blood pressure after the beating. While the description does match somewhat, the fact that the evidence being used comes from the bible with no additional corroborating evidence makes this suspect. The gospels are not reliable historical documents, and as such, they require additional material to back up their claims.

The Agony of the Cross

Strobel states his confidence in Jesus, saying “[Strobel:] That’s because historians are unanimous that Jesus survived the beating that day…” (Strobel, CFC, P. 213). Rather than a unanimous agreement the Strobel attempts to portray here, historians are in quite a bit of disagreement about whether Jesus even existed at all. The only way you can make the claim that Jesus survived the beating and get a unanimous agreement is if you take the gospels as fact. As I’ve said before, the gospels are not to be trusted.

Dr. Metherell makes the claim that Jesus was crucified to “[Dr. Metherell:] …[fulfill] the Old Testament prophecy in Psalm 22, which foretold the Crucifixion hundreds of years before it took place” (Strobel, CFC, P. 214). As with Isaiah, a reading of the passages surrounding Psalm 22:14 shows a different story. It appears to be the wailing of someone who is going through a rough time. There is no mention that this was intended to be a prophecy, no mention that this was referring to anyone besides the author, and no mention of Jesus at all. Psalm 22 contains no prophecies.

The Cause of Death

The fact that, after all of this, Dr. Metherell thinks “[Dr. Metherell:] with his heart beating erratically, Jesus would have known that he was at the moment of death, which is when he was able to say, ‘Lord, into your hands I commit my spirit.’ ” (Strobel, CFC, P. 215) is a bit absurd.

First off, Jesus would have needed the knowledge of how this would be affecting him ahead of time to know this would happen, which would require some medical knowledge not available at the time. Second, by Dr. Metherell’s own admission, “[Dr. Metherell:] crucifixion is essentially an agonizingly slow death by asphyxiation.” (Strobel, CFC, P. 215). How Jesus could have been able to get enough air into his lungs to cry out anything, much less converse with the thieves that are there, is a conundrum. Far more likely, the accounts of the gospels are fabricated.

Answering the Skeptics

Dr. Metherell makes the unreasonable claim that Roman Soldiers “[Dr. Metherell:] …were experts in killing people-that was their job, and they did it very well. They knew without a doubt when a person was dead, and really it’s not so terribly difficult to figure out.” (Strobel, CFC, P. 218). Being a trained soldier does not make one an expert on whether or not someone is dead. Mispronouncing someone as dead is a problem that still happens today even with significant advances in medical knowledge. Saying that a soldier from the first century knows enough to make a pronouncement that doctors today can still get wrong is ludicrous.

Dr. Metherell also claims that Jesus’s legs weren’t broken due to “[Dr. Metherell:] …another Old Testament prophecy about the Messiah, which is that his bones would remain unbroken.” (Strobel, CFC, P. 217). Unfortunately for Dr. Metherell, there is no such prophecy in the bible, nor does Dr. Metherell point to any verses that he believes would back this claim up. Rather than there being a prophecy, John 19:36 is simply making up nonsense in order to lend credence to it’s claim… just like any good propaganda book would do.

The Final Argument

Strobel opens with this section with a dubious statement: “[Strobel:] Appealing to history and medicine, to archaeology and even Roman military rules, Metherell had closed every loophole” (Strobel, CFC, P. 218). To this I say: No. This tells us that a doctor pronounced someone dead based on a textual analysis of the gospels, which are themselves highly suspect.

Dr. Metherell also dismisses the claims that Jesus perhaps just fainted on the cross and woke up in the tomb without any appeal to logic. He instead appeals to reasons that require supernatural intervention to be true, such as Jesus’s appearances to people shortly after being buried. Rather than reading the narrative in the gospel and dismissing the fanciful claims as having no evidence for them, Dr. Metherell uses the fanciful claims as an excuse to justify other fanciful claims that he finds in them.

I should point out that I have no issue with Dr. Metherell himself, but his methodology. Dr. Metherell’s assessment of what might have happened is reasonable, but drawing any conclusions based off the gospel texts is unreasonable. We have no records to corroborate what happened, and without additional mentions from other scholars at the time, it seems unlikely that this ever happened.

A Question for the Heart

Strobel closes this story with a talk to Dr. Metherell and finishes off tying everything up into a nice little package for the aspiring Christian, saying “[Strobel:] Those who seek to explain away the resurrection of Jesus by claiming that he somehow escaped the clutches of death at Galgotha need to offer a more plausible theory that fits the facts.” (Strobel, CFC, P. 220-221).

If that’s not a challenge, I don’t know what is. I’ve got a more convincing theory for you. One that doesn’t rely on supernatural, incredible, and unsubstantiated claims.

Jesus didn’t go to the cross or do any of the things the gospels tell us he did. If he existed, he was just a guy who might have said some revolutionary things at the time. The gospels sprung up around his teachings many years later and were written with the intent to convince others to believe in them, the gospel of John even admits this. The character of Jesus was mythologized with a narrative to give early Christians a sense of purpose, an a clear progression of this can be seen when read in the order of Mark, Matthew/Luke, John. All together, even if someone named Jesus did exist, it is highly unlikely that the gospels would give us a good sense of who that person was and what happened to him.

Citations

  1. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation#Footnotes_included_in_NIV

Genesis Annotated: Chapter 11

Chapter Overview

Chapter 11 introduces the Tower of Babel and a time that all languages were supposedly the same. God decides that people working together is a bad thing, because they might accomplish something awesome, and he goes down to make everyone start speaking different languages.

Additional Thoughts

Genesis 10:5, 10:20, and 10:31 all specify that different languages (aka: tongues) exist. In all likelihood, this is a story that was brought in from another source and then given a tie-in with Noah to try make it seem authentic. Unfortunately, chapter 10 states that different languages already exist. Too many “if-s” have to be taken into account to give this a reason to exist in this text.

The Scientific/logic/sequence mistakes in this chapter

  1. Contradicts chapter 10 claiming that multiple languages exist (Genesis 11:1)
  2. Languages have evolved over time and can be traced back to see how related they are to one another. An event such as this would have no such indicators (Genesis 11:7-9)
  3. According to Genesis 6:3, 120 should be the max age (Genesis 11:12,13,15,16,19,21,23,24,32)
  4. Does not line up with other Genesis 10 genealogies (Genesis 11:13,15,17,18)

Chapter 11: The tower of babel
AKA: God introduces barriers to collaboration

  1. And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
  2. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
  3. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
  4. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
  5. And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
  6. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
  7. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
  8. So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
  9. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
  10. These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
  11. And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
  12. And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
  13. And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
  14. And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
  15. And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
  16. And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
  17. And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
  18. And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
  19. And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
  20. And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
  21. And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
  22. And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
  23. And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
  24. And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
  25. And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
  26. And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
  27. Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
  28. And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
  29. And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor’s wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
  30. But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
  31. And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
  32. And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.

  1. A reading of chapter 10:5, 10:20, and 10:31 suggests otherwise
  2. Who? They? Who is they? Noah? Some of his sons?

  3. Is slime a good mortar? I really don’t know. I would suspect not though. Mortar needs something to harden, and random slime probably won’t cut it.
  4. I hope there aren’t any drastic consequences for actions of great hubris. <sarcasm>We’ve never seen anything like consequences for hubris in any other mythologies before. </sarcasm>
  5. He couldn’t just observe this from on high? Or just know that it’s been made? Again, no omniscience. That was fabricated later.
  6. Oh no, people can communicate effectively and this could enable them to accomplish things.


  7. Seems like a dick move to me.
    the “us” seems to indicate that this was a polytheistic religion at the time.
  8. Why are claims of languages evolving naturally over time met with less resistance than species evolution?
  9. So… god doesn’t want people working together and able to communicate in peace. Why is this a good thing? Thank goodness for google translate nowadays.

  10. Boring genealogy alert. Note the ages though. Genesis 6:3 says they should be 120 years max. 1 kiddo.
  11. How many? Nobody knows. Why? Because genealogies really don’t matter.

  12. Lines up with chapter 10 so far

  13. No. Read chapter 10. He had 1 kid: Salah. It’s almost like these genealogies were made up to support a tale or something.
  14. mmkay.

  15. No. Genesis 10:25 shows 2 sons. No daughters. Either one chapter is right, or both are wrong.
  16. He didn’t get the memo from Genesis 6:3 either.
  17. No. Chapter 10 shows 2 sons only. Maybe chapter 10 was worth reading after all, boring as it was.
  18. This child is new and isn’t in chapter 10
  19. 120 years as a maximum age anyone? Anyone? No?

  20. mmkay

  21. Plot demands that these people are able to live longer than the 120 year maximum. Buy why?
  22. next

  23. Older than 120 years again. Either god can’t enforce an age limit, or these people just said no to it.
  24. Below 120…. but only for this verse

  25. This would put him at 148. Still above 120 as a maximum age.

  26. We’re starting to see a few characters that will show up later now.
  27. Lot and Abram will show up later. Keep an eye on them.

  28. His daughter, brought up next verse, must not be important enough to the writer to record anywhere except as a wife.
  29. So… we have Nahor, who is Haran’s brother, marrying Haran’s daughter. Marrying your siblings children is A-OK according to this text. This can cause some genetic problems as we know today.
  30. 0 kiddos.
  31. Everyone gets to go on a field trip.





  32. Again…. 120 max age memo was missed.

Additional Notes

There is a VERY similar story from Sumeria that describes a “confusion of tongues” involving the construction of temples. Read about it on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enmerkar_and_the_Lord_of_Aratta

Also, fun fact: There MIGHT be a VERY small kernel of truth to the story of the tower of babel, but not in the way that biblically-minded people might expect. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel#Etemenanki,_the_ziggurat_at_Babylon


To briefly explain, Babel, short for Babylon, started construction of a large tower in honor of the god Marduk. When King Nabopolassar started the tower, Babylon’s writing system (Cuneiform) was still in use. Schools taught children how to read and write it, and the ability to transfer information allowed Babylon to better manage itself as a civilization.

After Nebuchadnezzar’s death, the construction was halted and the civilization saw a decline in education, leading to the loss of knowledge of it’s writing system. This loss of knowledge kept anyone from being able to read the Cuneiform tablets, and after several generations, no one knew what Cuneiform was anymore. Thus, people couldn’t communicate as effectively anymore.