Chapter Overview
One day while AbramHam is just chilling, god shows up and tells him it’s time to have a child. God then accuses Sarah of laughing (even though it seems like she made absolutely no noise whatsoever) and reiterates she’ll have a son. AbramHam goes wandering with god while god tells him of his plans to destroy Sodom. AbramHam decides to dicker with god to convince god that if there are even 10 righteous people there, the city will be saved.
Additional Thoughts
Why does god even bother going through the haggling process if he’s omniscient? He should already know how many people are “righteous” in the city. AKA: 1, Lot. That means that if he already knows how many there are, he’s agreeing to something that he knows will never happen, which amounts to just yanking AbramHam’s chain and making him feel like he’s accomplishing something.
Chapter 18: God Consults AbramHam Consulting Co.
- And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
- And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
- And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
- Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
- And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
- And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
- And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
- And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
- And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
- And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
- Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
- Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
- And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
- Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
- Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
- And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
- And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
- Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
- For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
- And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
- I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
- And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.
- And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
- Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
- That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
- And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
- And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
- Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
- And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake.
- And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
- And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake.
- And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
- And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
- I presume we’re talking about AbramHam here.
- I thought this was supposed to be god, not some random men? Are there 4 (god + 3 men) or 3 men total?
- Sounds like giving things to men walking by is looked upon pretty well.
- He’s acting like a decent host at least. Maybe that’ll keep him from having plagues tossed at him like the Pharaoh.
- He’s really laying into this heavily. I wonder if they tell him to get on with it in order to stop additional bowing and scraping (or anything else to that effect)
- Sounds like there’s a total of three people he’s bringing food to. Is god one of them them?
- He certainly doesn’t mess around about using his cattle for food if the situation demands.
- Did he cook that calf at all?
- Again… not omniscient
- So he’s just here for a quick snack and a visit this time?
- AKA: They gave up on trying to fulfill Genesis 1:28. And Genesis 9:1.
- She finds the idea of two old people who don’t get it on anymore having a child hard to imagine. I can’t imagine why.
- No, she didn’t say that. See the previous verse for what she said.
- Finding alternatives to destroying the world was certainly too hard. And so was providing a text that has any reason to believe it, apparently.
- If she made no noise, and was merely amused by the idea, did she really laugh?
- These fellows leave and AbramHam decides to go with them for a while?
- I think this is the first time he consults with a human on what he should do?
- Well… technically Abraham does not become a great and mighty nation. His kids end up forming one.
- A bit odd to speak about the guy in front of you as though he’s not here. Almost sounds like he’s musing out loud.
- But why? What things have they done? Has god given any commands other than get laid and don’t kill people?
- At least he’s checking things out and talking to people before jumping straight to the genociding business he’s so good at…
- Bye angel dudes.
- Thus begins the long haggling process. Why this is done at all is weird as god, who knows all, would know how many are there.
- Seems reasonable. It also seems like a powerful god would be able to find a way to get around killing the righteous with the unrighteous.
- This is a surprisingly reasonable argument. “You’re the final judge of everything, so shouldn’t you make sure you’re doing everything in a just manner?”
- What about if there were 50 righteous on the face o f the planet before you flooded it?
- AbramHam is quite self deprecating here. Talking down a genocidal god must be pretty terrifying.
- This is starting to sound like another argument I’ve heard. If you add grains of sand together, one at a time, when does it become a pile?
- Where was this willingness to overlook evil for righteousness’s sake back when he killed off literally everything?
- This is starting to make me wonder if there were several works that were grouped into one here. One where he stated 50, another 45, another 20, and another 10.
- If this logic is to be followed, then eventually you’d get down to keeping the city that is “wicked” somehow just because righteous people live in the world.
- Seems like AbramHam was able to make a compelling enough case to talk god down from a local and specific murder of thousands.
- Given that god is allegedly omniscient, wouldn’t he already know that Lot is the only righteous guy in the city?